Mastering Tools and Processes with Anna Burgess Yang

Nigel Rawlins: Anna, welcome to the Wisepreneurs podcast. Can you tell us something about yourself and where you're from?

Anna Burgess Yang: So I am originally from a state in the U. S. called Wisconsin, but I currently live in a suburb of Chicago and have been here for about 15 years with my family including three kids and three cats.

Nigel Rawlins: Do they get to go outside or do you keep them inside?

Anna Burgess Yang: They are totally inside, and I have worked from home, since 2006, so there have always been cats around.

Nigel Rawlins: The reason I say that is that we have a native, um, native garden, so we like to attract the the birds, and we've got new next door neighbours with cats, and we chased a cat out of the garden the other day, so, you know, cats if they get outside they actually hunt, so it was a bit of a worry, so, uh, especially all the effort, and we, we get beautiful native birds coming into the gardens, they've all, they've all made their noises now, so they're probably not going to interfere with us. So Anna, tell us about what you do. You made the shift from FinTech. So tell us something about FinTech and the shift that you made.

Anna Burgess Yang: So, um, I worked at a financial technology, uh, FinTech software company for 15 years. And I got, I got into that because, uh, prior to that, I worked at a bank. And I worked at a bank for six years. So it was kind of a natural shift from banking into this technology that served banks. And I was the product manager at the company.

I left, I was on the executive team. And in 2021, I was an early arrival at the great resignation that kind of hit the globe and quit my job and went into content marketing and journalism. And worked for companies for about 18 months. And now I work for myself as a freelance writer

Nigel Rawlins: So the interesting thing there is you, you had a fairly long career. What made you decide you wanted to move from there into content marketing? What, what made that shift?

Anna Burgess Yang: I have always considered myself a writer. I was an English major in college. But at the time that I graduated, writing did not seem like a career. It seemed like you could maybe get a low paying job at a newspaper or you could publish a book and that was kind of it, uh, at least as far as I could tell.

So I didn't really consider writing as the place that I could go. You know, I wanted the family, I wanted some stability, so I never really thought about it. Then in late 2020, when I started thinking about leaving my job and wondering, what else could I do? Could I do something different? Somehow in my job search, I tripped across content marketing.

I truly did not know that was a career. I didn't know that companies hired writers and paid them to write things for their blog or write eBooks or white papers and whatnot. And so, um, I got a job freelancing for a content agency and I did that alongside my corporate job for about three months so that I could build up a portfolio showing people that I could write and that led to a full time job

in early 2021. And simultaneously, I was offered a job writing for a magazine. So I did some journalism as well. But yeah, that's, it's just always been part of my life is writing. And so now I do it professionally.

Nigel Rawlins: In, that content writing, did they have a system in place that, that's helpful for you today? Or did you just have to go in and do your thing?

Anna Burgess Yang: So, you know, when I took the job freelancing alongside, um, alongside my corporate job, I literally knew nothing about content marketing. I didn't know how to structure a blog post in a way that people would read it, but the agency worked with hundreds of freelancers and had a very specific structure that freelancers needed to follow for every single post we submitted.

That taught me the basics of, of how to write for an online audience and how to add headers and keywords and things like that, that are necessary for content marketing. Um, so I was really learning on the fly, but that was enough to get me to an agency, where I learned a little bit more.

Plus was working with an editor who could give feedback on things I was

writing.

Nigel Rawlins: So how was that working with an editor? Because most of us who have to write our own articles don't have editors. So did you find that useful as well?

Anna Burgess Yang: I found the editor at the magazine that I worked at very helpful because these were happening simultaneously. I was at this marketing agency and I was at, um, I was writing for a magazine. The magazine editor was really great. And journalism is a much different style, obviously, than content marketing, but she gave very constructive and very helpful feedback and really encouraged me to develop the skill set.

I think, um, far more than I got at the agency itself. So, uh, that was probably the best experience I

had with an editor.

Nigel Rawlins: So, all of that sounds like really good experience for running your own business. Um, because one of the biggest issues is, you know, we've got to market ourselves. And, um, and I don't know if I said, I run a marketing services company. So I look after the marketing of several, well, about 15 clients and do all their websites and keep things up to date.

But, you know, a lot of people have got no idea about the marketing. I would assume that you know something about the financials of running a business, having been in fintech. So let's talk a little bit about being a solopreneur, which is the word you use. So what made you decide that you could survive as a solopreneur?

Anna Burgess Yang: I honestly wasn't sure I could, um, but it not only was it the financial experience, but because my last role at that company was on the executive team. I was part, I, you know, I managed other people. I was part of decision making for the business. I was part of, business strategy looking out for the entire year, things like that.

So that part I was very comfortable with. And also, um, because it was a small company, I was used to kind of using tools and things to help me get my job done. So I actually wasn't worried about that part. The, the, the business aspect of running a business. For me, it was more, can I find clients and work?

And, and that's where the marketing piece comes in, right? And, um, that I had to market myself. And so when I, um, left a marketing agency in late 2022, I, I told my husband, I'm going to give it six months. Can I turn this into a business on my own in six months? If not, I will go find another job.

And here I am now almost two more years later, business is doing very well and I can't see myself going back to working for an employer.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay, so how did you find those first clients?

Anna Burgess Yang: So I don't know why, but when I left FinTech, I started posting on LinkedIn. I think a little bit, but not, not in any type of self promotional way. I think it was more of just, I had this long career. I was connected to so many people. I wanted to maybe just give them updates on what I was doing now. And so I got in this habit of posting something every week, just about what was going on in my new career.

Once a week became twice a week. And then somewhere about a year later, I thought maybe at some point I'm going to go out on my own. And if I do, probably a personal brand would help. It was, you know, I observed other people and especially other people who were self employed. And I thought if people know who I am, it's going to be easier to get clients, than to cold email people or cold DM people on LinkedIn. So I really stepped up my game of building a personal brand, even though I didn't have a specific idea of when I might go out on my own. But I thought whenever I'm ready to make that leap, this will be helpful. So that was the, um, the strategy that I took.

Uh, to make it easier to get clients. So when I finally made the announcement and said, Hey, I'm open to freelance work, I had people come in to me. And I'd been maintaining a few freelance clients on the side, even though I was working for an agency, but they had all been direct referrals and people that I knew.

This was my first time going out to people that I really didn't know and trying to get work.

Nigel Rawlins: So you're talking about personal branding. Can you explain what you mean by that? And how you went about creating that personal brand.

Anna Burgess Yang: I mean, you know, I find the term a little bit cringe, but that's the term that everybody uses. And it's, it's positioning yourself out in the world in a public facing way. Um, so that people kind of know who you are and either associate you with maybe a specific personality, a specific style, um, you know, Um, I share other things I've written outside of client work to kind of demonstrate, you know, I, I can do this.

I share work I've done for clients. And so it's, it's just a different approach than trying to use, you know, cold outreach techniques. And some people do both. Um, a cold outreach to me sounded like the worst thing ever. I just had no interest in doing that. It's not comfortable for me. Um, and so I thought the more I put myself out there and establish this is who I am and this is what I do, the more people are going to come to me. Um, and at this point, two years later, all of my, all of my work is inbound. I don't have to do any outreach.

Nigel Rawlins: That's pretty good. So, okay, well, let's talk about your business. Tell me, is it a personal name business, or did you give it a name? And What do you actually do in the business?

Anna Burgess Yang: I, I gave it a legal name, because in the, in the U. S. I established a, uh, LLC, a limited liability company. So ABY Creative, my initials. Um, that's just, what's on my contracts, but basically I operate under myself when I'm doing client work. So that is mostly writing for financial technology companies because it is a very niche industry.

Not a lot of freelancers understand it and can write about it correctly and in a way that makes sense for the audience. So that's most of my business. I also create resources for other freelancers, small business owners, and solopreneurs. That side of the business I call tinkering with ideas because I like to tinker with tools. I'm always playing around with different tools and automation. And so I have a newsletter, I create tutorials. I create videos and things like that trying to help other people who like to do that type of thing or they're interested in it and helping them figure out how to get started or maybe solve a particular workflow that they're trying to do or figure out how to get started with automation. So that is just a separate something I do because I enjoy doing it.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay. So one part of your business is writing for, uh, commercial organizations. And the other one is helping solopreneurs or small business people. So when we talk about solopreneur, we're talking about one person and small business might have several, with automation. So let's just have a little talk about, you mentioned apps. and automation. Let's have a little chat about that because sometimes it's a bit hard to get your head around it. What do we mean by that?

Anna Burgess Yang: So by automation, um, I mean, apps could be anything. It could be an app on your phone, could be an app on the web. Um, but basically, you know, anything that you're using, piece of technology to help get something done. And most apps have like a specific purpose. There are some like multi purpose apps or they try to do everything, but, you know, it's helping you solve like a specific thing that makes your life easier in some way.

Automation happens when you're trying to connect two different apps together because um, maybe you're doing something starting something in one and finishing it in the other and you have to like re key some type some stuff in again. Automation could move things from point A to point B.

Automation can also happen within an app. Sometimes apps have their own, um, ways to build automation within it so that you're not doing so many clicks, not doing so many things manually. And that happens when there's a very defined, if this happens, do this other thing, whether that's in the app or between apps or between 15 apps. You know, if you have something really complicated going on. Um, so that's kind of what I talk about is how to make your life easier through apps, tools, automation.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay, let's start talking about some of those apps then. So what's a, for example, if you're a solopreneur, I guess a lot of people might have an online billing system or they might have an accounting program. So let's start off with the basics well, for yourself even, when you set yourself up, so what basic apps do you use?

And then let's talk about some of the automations, and I'm assuming if we look at this in terms of other people who are solopreneurs might be able to use as well, similar.

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah, so here's a really easy one. I mean, not necessarily easy. It's multi step, but easy to conceptually understand. When I bring on a new client, for example, I have an automation set up that automatically saves the contract to my Google Drive. That's just based on email comes in, PDF attached, comes from this signature platform I use.

And so it just knows, based on that criteria, move this over into my Google Drive. So, easy one. When a new client comes in, I need to keep track of them, right? So, I use Airtable, which is like an online database. That is where I centralize all of my work. So when I add the new client to Airtable, you know, I'll put in the name of the company, the name of the primary contact, I'll put in some details about the company.

Once I do that, automation happens and one adds the client to QuickBooks, my accounting tool so I don't have to rekey all of that over. I already did it once. I don't need to do it again. So it moves the data over into QuickBooks. And then another thing it does immediately is it automatically adds five folders to my Google Drive for that client.

Every single client, I give them the same five folders. It's just how I organize my work. If I didn't have that automated, I'd have to do that every single time. Right click, add folder, right click, add folder. I could make a mistake. I could forget to do it. And so, the automation is just doing that for me.

So all I'm doing is just filling out, you know, one time in Airtable, just adding the client. And then it's doing these other things behind the scenes.

Nigel Rawlins: That's pretty neat. Because, uh, yeah, setting up those things manually can be a pain. Um, so. When you talked about setting up those five folders, what do you mean by that? What sort of, what labels do you put on those?

Anna Burgess Yang: So the first folder is for any agreements, so the contract itself. I also have a couple clients that where there's multiple contracts over time, so that's the first one. Uh, the second one is for drafts, so that's my version of drafting. And there's actually a subfolder in that one for the brief that I get from the client telling me what to do.

The next folder is for collaboration. So that is shared with the client. So once I'm done with my draft, copy it over. That's where the client and I work together. The next one is for resources. So my clients might give me a copy of their style guide, or they might give me some internal messaging documents, or maybe I downloaded a PDF dated research report on the internet. I don't want to, you know, I need to put it somewhere. So it's just anything related to working with the client. And then my last folder is for interview transcripts because I do a lot of interviewing, um, and talking to subject matter experts with the client or with their customers, um, or for some of the journalism work I do. So it's just a spot to put specifically interview transcripts.

Nigel Rawlins: That's pretty well organized. Okay, so that's setting up a client. What about some of the other apps that you might use to do your, your, your daily work? Are you using AI as well?

Anna Burgess Yang: I am.

Nigel Rawlins: So let's, let's talk about apps and then we can have a chat about AI as well.

Anna Burgess Yang: So here's a really, a similar one, um, with just repetitive steps that happen every time I do work. So a client gives me a brief, um, that says, here's what we would like you to write. And every client uses their own format, but they usually send me a Google doc. And so then I add the deliverable to Airtable.

Basically, what's the working title, copy of the brief, what's the word count, you know, that they're looking for, things like that. So I add it to Airtable. Once I do that, automation runs in the background and automatically adds a Google Doc to the client's folder using a template that I have set up. So every single client, every single deliverable, same template, same organization.

I'm not manually copying it over. I'm not manually, um, putting it in the right spot. It's doing that for me. And it automatically adds what's called a card to Trello, which is my project management tool. So then I work in Trello, and that's how I kind of move through the different stages of the writing process.

Again, that's all happening automatically. And that's how I also keep track of when are things due? What's my bandwidth? All that comes from working in project management in trello.

I'm a former product manager. I had to be organized earlier in my life.

Nigel Rawlins: So you've obviously been using this technology for a while because it sounds like you're very comfortable with it, and that's the problem with a lot of, say, solopreneurs, they've worked for a big company, they've retired or they've decided to go solo and they don't have an IT department anymore. So either they've got to get their head around this or they've got to hire somebody to help set it up.

Sounds like using Airtable is a fairly good way to ground everything.

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah. And I think, you know, when I talk to people, they say, where do I get started? And I give an example, like what I just gave. That is a multi step automation I say, start with something so simple. Like, let's say you use Calendly for scheduling. You could set up so many automations with Calendly to create a project.

Let's say you go directly from booking to a project. If somebody books with me, add this to my project management tool. If somebody books with me, add this to my task list. Those are really simple, like one step pieces that you're probably just doing every time and you know what the steps are. You know, that when that booking happens, you have to create a task to follow up on it or whatever that is.

And so I say, start there. Don't start with my 17 step example, which is what it actually is to, you know, get a deliverable going for a client.

Nigel Rawlins: So when you say the automations, um, are you talking about Zapier?

Yep. That's, that's, that's, there, there are a few on the market. Um, Zapier's one, there's another one called Make, there's another one called. If This Then That, I F T T T. Zapier is just the one that I started using a long time ago, back when I worked at a tech company and it's just what I'm comfortable with. And so that's my tool of choice to make all this happen.

So with those, obviously with Zapier, there is a bit of a learning curve. I've only just, trialled it recently and trying to figure out some simple zaps. What do they need to know about Zapier to really use it? Or should, you know, if it's too complicated, should they hire you?

Anna Burgess Yang: I don't know about hiring me. Well, I, I do work with people, but I'm more, help them figure out what to do and then tell them to go hire somebody else. You can set that up because there is quite a bit involved with usernames and passwords and getting logins. And I just don't want to deal with that.

So, uh, there are people who are more equipped for that type of thing than me. But, what I tell people is, Zapier has a ton of content. They are like a content machine. And so they have a ton of written tutorials written by real life people. I even, I write for Zapier myself. I'm on their blog, um, saying here's exactly how to set this up.

Here's screenshots that show you how to do it. Um, they've also got a ton of app specific kind of like recipes. So if you typed in Calendly, you could say, Oh, here's an idea of connect Calendly to a Google sheet. Connect Calendly to Todoist, which is a to-do app, connect Calendly to Trello. And so kind of show you like ways that you could use it and you, and you look and you think, oh, I get it.

Yes, I use both of those apps. How could I use those together?

Nigel Rawlins: So really what you're saying is you've really got to think about your business and the repetitive stuff you do and save yourself time by finding some way to automate it, like using Zapier. So you actually helped them design the system and all the flows and then say, okay, you need to find somebody who will actually set this up for you.

What's that somebody called?

Anna Burgess Yang: So Zapier on their website and probably these others also, they have like lists of consultants. Some who maybe are solo, some who have a company, but, and some of them are certified. Like they'll say, I am a Zapier expert. And that's where probably I fall short is I have not worked with every tool on the planet, nor do I want to.

And so I'll say, here's how the flow works. Now go find somebody who's, who's worked with your specific tools who could help you figure that out. Um, And do the technical setup for those. But yeah, there are consultants that can do that type of thing and work with you.

Um, to get that set up.

Nigel Rawlins: So it sounds like, you know, what I'm hearing is you're more like an architect. You'll help design a system then they've got to hire the builder.

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah, I guess that's a very good way of putting it. Um, yes I I like to help people kind of talk through because i've i've been on i've seen the other side of that also where the builder doesn't conceptually know what to do like that if you tell them they'll do it, but they're not necessarily They're not necessarily equipped to kind of help you figure out the design piece.

They're just on the execution side. So that's kind of where I will kind of do some one on one stuff and say, hey, tell me, give me an example of something you're doing today. And they're like, Oh, okay, this is what you're doing. This is what you could be doing. This is what, how it could be automated and kind of write that up. And then they could take that information and go to somebody who can set it up for them.

Nigel Rawlins: Now that sounds like a really important job. So, but it's, it's better than the doing because you can get bogged down in the doing, but in the designing, that's the smart stuff.

Anna Burgess Yang: And I, you know, I did, um, a while ago, I did try working with a couple of people on the actual doing and, um, for me, it just got, it got too in the weeds with like how the tool worked and how they had it configured. And it was a ton of back and forth. And specifically for me, with the writing work I do, that was not a good fit.

I wasn't, I can't, um, I'm very heads down when I'm working on my other side of my business, the client stuff. And so it's kind of like I needed to come in, help you figure that piece out and then be done, you know, and move on to something else.

Nigel Rawlins: Yeah. I guess the thing I'm worried about is yes, if somebody, um, we call it Jerry building that, you know, it's, it's not quite legal and it's got a bit here and a bit there, it could be quite messy, but getting somebody who's really good at doing the build means it's going to be clean because I remember one of my son's cousins is a marine engineer and he showed me a picture of the rewiring he did for a boat, a fairly large boat obviously.

And, uh, Originally, it was just a mess of wires everywhere hanging down, and then he showed me all the clean, beautiful, flowing wiring system that he set up afterwards.

So what are some of the other apps? So we just talked about the organization of you get a booking on a calendar, can set up things. You've got a new client and you can set up all the folders. And you mentioned from your Airtable to set up a new account client. What are some of the other apps that are helpful in their business that they can also maybe automate?

Anna Burgess Yang: So in addition to Trello, which I use for project management. I also use Todoist for tasks and you know, there are all in one apps that can kind of do both. I prefer to keep them separate and um, I also use Todoist for personal. Like I keep work and personal tasks together and Todoist is really good at recurring tasks, like things that you have to do every month, things like that.

So um, So for Todoist, I have an automation setup, uh, with Siri on my phone that if I tell Siri like, hey New item. And then I just speak what I need to do in the background Zapier picks it up and puts it on my to do list. So, I just don't like the built in one on my iPhone. I just don't think it's very robust.

I prefer to do is this got a lot more that I can do with it. Um, and I needed a way to kind of walk around and be able to capture, I'm busy, I have three kids. And so it's like, oh, I have to schedule a dentist appointment or something like that. Rather than forget about it, especially if I'm not near my computer, I'll just say, Hey Siri, and it's probably like, Oh, yep.

She, she heard me. And she, my phone just, she lit up, and say, you know, new item. And then I just speak that. And in the background, the automation is picking that up and adding it to my to do list. And whether it's work, whether it's personal, whatever, I don't lose that train of thought.

Nigel Rawlins: So we've talked about several things there already. How do you come across each of these new ones? How did you think, okay, I can use Siri to do this and do that?

Anna Burgess Yang: So that was kind of, that one was kind of an accident. I used to use Alexa. And now my Alexa device is gonna, or if you have one, they're gonna start talking to me. Yeah. I used to use the Amazon device that's in my house. And, when I first got the device and I was a really early adopter, I had like the old tower that isn't even sold anymore, but I was just scrolling through and looking at what what different apps are available. And I saw that Todoist was one of them. And so I was like, this is amazing. I can, I can say, Hey, Hey, Alexa, can you add this to my to do list? And it worked. It was beautiful.

And so it would just automatically add it. Amazon stopped supporting that integration. And, uh, like just earlier this year, after I'd been using it for a long time. So I had to find a replacement and I was actually complaining about it on threads. And a friend of mine said, Hey, I bet you could do this with Siri.

And he sent me a blog post from Zapier that explained exactly how to set it up because I'd never set anything up with Siri before. And so I just followed the steps in the blog post. I'm like, cool, that worked. So it was kind of just originally, it was just, you know, kind of scrolling through and seeing what was available.

And then that led to, okay, now I need to set this up again in a different way because what I was doing stopped working.

Nigel Rawlins: So how old are your children?

Anna Burgess Yang: My children are 15, 12 and 7.

Nigel Rawlins: So, so you've got to keep them organized. You've got to organize a business. You have to be super organized.

Anna Burgess Yang: That is my superpower, um, is organization. I have to, yeah, you're right. I have to like, and, and even when I was working in corporate I was working for a small company and lots of hats. As you know anybody who's worked for a small company, knows. Was responsible for a lot. I was on the executive team and the only product manager.

So. I had to figure out ways to make tools work for me so that I didn't drop the ball on anything. And a lot of that is getting things written down, getting them on lists, getting them in tools, getting them in apps that I check all the time so that I don't have to hold everything in my brain because otherwise I promise you I'd forget. If I had to, something would fall out.

Nigel Rawlins: Actually, that's a really good point. Yeah. We call that the extended brain is, uh, is moving stuff out of your head so you don't lose them. Now you mentioned, Siri, I've got a Google device just sitting there that controls my air conditioning to keep me nice and warm and cool in summer. And I have got, Alexa up over there. It does things as well. Do you use those to automate your home as well?

Anna Burgess Yang: I don't have it automated, but my thermostat is connected to my Alexa device and I could adjust it from there. I've got it set on like timer, you know, timers and stuff. I do use smart plugs and smart light bulbs. So in my office in the morning, I come in and say, Alexa, turn on the lights.

And then they all come up and some of them are on timers, so they just turn on. So when I go down to get my coffee, I don't fall over because it's dark. The lights have turned on at like 4 in the morning, so that it's already there and ready for me.

Nigel Rawlins: Not seriously about four in the morning, are you?

Anna Burgess Yang: I do get up at four in the morning.

Nigel Rawlins: How come?

Anna Burgess Yang: It's a, it was a bit of a pandemic leftover. Our schools were closed here and, um, my kids were home during the day and it was very difficult to get anything done. And so I started just waking up early, to have this focused, well, quiet and focused work time.

And then I go to bed really early. I like sleep, so I'm not, I'm not sacrificing sleep. Um, but I just started this, this practice of getting up early, getting my work done because the day would be so crazy. And. I found that I really liked it. I liked the silence of the morning. I've kind of always been a morning person and it wasn't like that much earlier.

I was probably already getting up at like five or five thirty. But I go to bed at like eight thirty. So it's, I'm still getting to sleep. It's just my, my schedule is a little bit shifted compared to other people.

Nigel Rawlins: Yeah, I think you are a super mum.

So are your kids organised like you are?

Anna Burgess Yang: They are. Um, they are. And I don't necessarily think I've taught them that. DNA or something, I'm not sure. Um, they are, I'm lucky, you know, I haven't, they kind of do their homework and keep track of their stuff and I don't have to push them too hard unless they, you know, unless it's like laundry and they don't want to.

Otherwise, they do seem to kind of all be pretty organized.

Nigel Rawlins: I think that's pretty good. You must be very proud of them.

Anna Burgess Yang: am.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay,

so obviously you're giving some ideas about your typical day starting fairly early. So, what does a typical day look like for you?

Anna Burgess Yang: So I'll usually get up, and I've got, you know, probably about an hour and a half to two hours before anybody else in the house stirs and I will do my own writing or work for my tinkering with ideas, my solopreneur type of work. So that might be writing a post for my blog. It might be writing my newsletter.

I'm on Substack. And so it's that type of work that's unrelated to client work. So that's, that's my time. But then this, then there's like this two hour parade of getting the kids out the door because, my kids are in three different schools this year because of their ages. So it's staggered. And when the bus comes, and so this rotation of breakfast and then getting ready to get it out the door.

So I don't sit back down until about eight thirty or so. And then, and then I'm doing client work. And so, um, it might be, I, I have to interview people a lot. I take meetings with prospective clients or just people that I know. Um, and then I usually will have some very heads down focused writing time. I try to wrap up the day pretty early.

My youngest gets off the bus at four in the afternoon. But I also am flexible that, you know, if something went completely amok during the day and I didn't get done what I needed to, I will, I'll just work on it in the evening if I have to, but rinse and repeat every day.

Nigel Rawlins: One of the big issues I have, and it might be because I'm a bit older, and um, is actually getting up and moving more. Because the danger of working for yourself is you can be in your seat for several hours. And uh, I know last night I had to finish something and I think I was, I was, I was at it for an hour and a half and I just felt so stiff and I hadn't got out of the seat.

And that's one of the biggest dangers of working for yourself is that we can be, we don't get to move much. We don't get outside even. So do you make breaks or get outside?

Anna Burgess Yang: I do. So my husband also works from home. So we're, we're both here during the day and we do try to take walks together in our neighborhood, at least weather permitting. It's going to start getting cold pretty soon in our area. But we do try to walk. Uh, so we went for a walk today, just walked around for about 25 minutes and then came back in.

And I also take a pretty long Break in the middle of the day. I stop, I eat lunch here at home, and then I take a nap. I like sleep and I got up early. So that's kind of like a brain break. I'm not just sitting at my computer. I mean, I'm not outside, but I'm not sitting either. So that's also built into my day.

Nigel Rawlins: The other thing I'm thinking about too is you've got to learn new stuff too. So you, you, you've got to do your writing. You've got to do your marketing in the morning and stuff like that. You're doing your client work. You're getting some time for yourself. Where do you find time to do new learning or courses and how do you make the time for that?

Anna Burgess Yang: So, I am a really avid podcast listener. I will listen to podcasts all the time. I do that in the car. Like if I'm driving anywhere, like every Friday morning is my grocery shopping time, like every single, like we're out of food by that point. I have to go grocery shopping and I go to two different stores.

And so by the time I, and I'm in a suburb of Chicago, so it's not a small area. So by the time I do all of that, it's probably at least an hour or more in the car. So, you know, I will listen to one or two podcasts. I will listen, basically, if I drive anywhere during the week, if it's something like a video course or things, I'll do that in the evening.

If I do any because I'm just tired like, I can't do anything else. Like there's nothing else productive going to come out of me, but I could maybe watch and absorb. Um, but my favorite thing is really listening to podcasts and I love doing that. And most of them are, um, I would say learning related, you know, related to the field I'm in, related to being a solopreneur.

Um, I know a lot of people listen to podcasts as, you know, escapism. They'll listen to like true crime or things like that. And more power to them. Do not listen to podcasts if you need, if you need the break time. But for me, that's my learning time.

Nigel Rawlins: Any particular podcasts you like?

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah. Yep. So I like Hard Fork by the New York Times. It's a tech podcast. And so it's two tech reporters. One of them's independent. One of them works for the New York Times. Just kind of talking about the tech news of the week. I like, uh, Creator Science by Jay Klaus. He is an online creator, and has been working for himself for several years.

So he kind of talks about, like, the business of running, you know, creating content. And I like Amy Porterfield, Online Marketing Made Easy. And so she talks a lot about things like marketing yourself, selling digital products, selling courses and things like that, which I'm also interested in.

Nigel Rawlins: One I've been listening to is The Automators. I don't know if you've come across that one.

Anna Burgess Yang: I'll have to look it

Nigel Rawlins: Oh, they're amazing. They talk about apps and automation as an American chap and an English lady. I think he's a retired lawyer. And she works in tech. It's quite fascinating. Um, I've just got to stop buying all the apps that they talk about.

Anna Burgess Yang: Shiny object.

Right.

Nigel Rawlins: oh, I'm, I'm shocking with that. See the problem is I've got half a dozen that I've just bought. Now I've got to learn how to use them. Plus all the other courses that I've bought over the years that I haven't got around to starting yet. But I was listening to one last night and as I was falling asleep, I thought, I just cannot listen anymore.

Um, You know, it's full on being a solopreneur, working for yourself, because there are a lot of things that you've got to do in the day. So, how do you figure out what takes priority?

Anna Burgess Yang: My client work kind of has to because if I don't work, I don't get paid. So, um, that, that has to take priority. But the way that I've structured my week is I really only do client work three or four days a week, so that I have, kind of spill over time. Like if something just completely went poorly during the week, I could work on Friday or something like that.

But the, the client work has to take priority. Being a mom has to take priority. Like my kids, you know, depend on me. um, for food, getting to school, um, driving them around, I'm their chauffeur, I'm their ATM. I'm all kinds of things for them. So, um, you know, I, I have to kind of do those things for my kids, but you know, uh, I do have a spouse that works from home as well.

So we are able to juggle some of those things. But his is a lot less flexible than mine. So a lot of it does fall to me to kind of manage. And then. After that, it's all of these, you know, other things that I like to create and I like to do. And I would call them, you know, I, I, I do earn money from them.

I sell products and things like that, but I do it because that's the work that I enjoy. So, yeah. Yes, it's part of my business, but it's also kind of like a hobby if I can, you know, it's a fashion project and so by by that that's kind of how I fit it in is that's enjoying I enjoy that work a lot And so that's kind of what motivates me to keep doing it, but I'm not willing to give up sleep I like sleep.

I like sleep a lot. I like naps. And so, I'm not the type of person who could put in, like, a 14 hour day to get everything done. I just can't. Like, I would, I would fall asleep. I'm exhausted by the end of the day. So, if the day gets long, then, yeah, these other things I do, these side things, those that are, unfortunately, fall to the bottom of the priority list.

Nigel Rawlins: It sounds like you've really got this organized, I think. But, but that comes with experience, and I think that comes with age, and probably more so having children, because you can see how organization really helps there. Let's just have a little talk about AI then. How do you approach AI, and what do you think about it?

Anna Burgess Yang: So, you know, in ChatGPT in particular, because that's , when people really started paying attention, you know, at first, I wasn't overly impressed with the output. The models have gotten better. But what I've realized is that it works, AI works well for me when I'm using my own content as a starting point. So, what I do is combine AI with automation to transform my own content. Here's what I mean by that. So, let's say I start with a blog post that I wrote for my own blog, and I want to turn that into social posts for LinkedIn, based on like the key ideas.

So before I would just read the, you know, after I publish it, I read the post, I write, I write the LinkedIn posts. Now I'm using generative AI in the middle and I'm saying ChatGPT, hey, you pull out the best ideas in my words. And now I'm just tweaking it before I publish it on LinkedIn. And I have tons of instructions, like, this is my tone.

Here's other examples of what I've written. Match this, mirror this, copy this style. So that way the editing is not non existent. It's never perfect, but it's minimal because it's starting with my work and it's based on what I have published before. And that's all automated. So a new blog post is published.

Zapier picks it up, automatically runs it through ChatsGPT, automatically adds it to Trello. And then I go into Trello when I'm ready to schedule my content. I just say, here's what comes next. And then edit and schedule them.

Nigel Rawlins: That's pretty good. Again, it's well thought out. I didn't realise you could automate ChatGPT.

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah, uh, ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini for sure I think all work with Zapier. So whatever tool you like and choose, um, it'll work. You just have to basically, as part of your automation, as part of your Zap, there's a place where you can put in instructions just like you would if you were working with ChatGPT on its own, but instead it's like embedded in this workflow.

So, I've got tons of similar, like, this'll be another example. When this podcast publishes, I will run it through an automation that, um, says look at only what I say. Look at my half of the conversation, pull out the key points. And then I'll turn those into future LinkedIn posts, text, text posts. Or I might say, look only at my half of the conversation and create an outline for future blog posts and expand on it and turn it into something else.

So, , I don't let any of my content go to waste. It's gotta, if I took the time to like create something, I've got to reuse it, like bunch of different ways.

Nigel Rawlins: Now that's a very important point about reusing. Do you, do you use an automation to send out your posts, um, to wherever you send them?

Anna Burgess Yang: Sort of, so I use buffer to schedule all of my content. You know, if I start with a blog post and run it through ChatGPT, I do not send it directly to buffer. I want to take like an editing step in there and, um, uh, planning. And so I send it to Trello, because I'm planning other types of, I mean, that's all of my content planning, including the blog posts I want to write, my sub stack.

So everything is in there. So no, I don't automatically set it, it has a stopping point in Trello first, but I do have an automation set up that does automate that. And what that one looks like is I start with a LinkedIn text post. And once it publishes, through buffer, it runs through ChatGPT and reformats it as a post for threads.

Because the style on threads is different. The vibe is different. The character count is different. It's shorter. And so, um, it runs through ChatGPT and it reformats the post. And then it sends it right back to Buffer, but for my threads profile. I still edit it, but I still look at it before I post it up, send it out.

But There's no reason for it to make a pit stop at Trello in that place. So in that case, yes, it is going right back to social media scheduling. I just need to review it, tweak

it, and then

send it out. Um,

Nigel Rawlins: Do you use ChatGPT anything else apart from your writing?

Anna Burgess Yang: Not really. It's all writing related. I use Midjourney to create images for my blog post. I am not that type of creative person. I'm not a visual person. So I will feed like my blog post in a ChatGPT and say, create a Midjourney prompt based on, based on this.

And then it will come up with a prompt for me. And then I will take that prompt and put it in a mid journey and see what kind of output it does and then tweak it from there. But rather than like me trying to like, come up with what type of image should go with his blog posts. It's doing that. So it's not directly related to my writing, but it's still based on my writing.

Um, but otherwise not really. Although my, my husband is a software engineer and he uses ChatGPT for coding type related things. His use cases are so completely different than mine. He'll tell me things. I'm like, I have no idea what you are talking about. Like, that's just completely opposite of how I do it.

Nigel Rawlins: Well, this has been an amazing conversation. You are a super organized person, but you, you are technically super organized as well. So it's been a fantastic conversation. Is there anything else you would like to mention, that people should hear about?

Anna Burgess Yang: Um, I, I don't think so. You know, I think automation and tools and apps can be super intimidating. And I would say the best way to get ideas is to find some, find a source that can give you ideas. So you mentioned a podcast that you listen to. I have a newsletter that I try to give people ideas or, or go on Zapier's blog and read things.

And that's the way to really spark ideas. I think it's really hard to kind of envision what's possible, when you don't know what's possible. So you kind of have to find those resources or follow people or things like that, who are talking about these things. And that's how you'll start to make, connect the dots and say, Oh yeah, that's how I can make this work for me.

Nigel Rawlins: Anna, this has been a fantastic conversation. I really, really enjoyed it. Anna, how would you like people to find you?

Anna Burgess Yang: So you can go to my landing page is start.annabyang.com. Or you can find me on LinkedIn, Anna Burgess Yang. I am the only one, so it's kind of easy to find me there. Um, and I talk about all this kind of stuff. So, uh, my landing page has got links to, you know, free resources and my newsletter and all that other stuff, so that's kind of a good starting point.

Nigel Rawlins: So thank you, Anna, for being my guest.

Anna Burgess Yang: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.