Sue Ellson: The Gigster's Guide to Lifelong Employability

Sue Ellson

Nigel Rawlins: Welcome, Sue, to the Wisepreneurs podcast. Could you tell us something about yourself and where you're from?

Sue Ellson: That's a very big question. I don't even know where to start, but I'll give you a very short potted history. I grew up in Adelaide in South Australia and I started my full time working career six days after my last year 12 exam as a career recruit for Westpac Banking Corporation, Australia's first bank.

So I worked in the bank for 11 years. It was very patriarchal at the time. And because I got married at 20, everybody assumed I would run off and have babies. And of course I stayed 11 years and heaps of guys left well before I did. So that was interesting. Anyway, I moved to Melbourne as a result of my ex husband's work and we decided to stay here regardless.

Anyway, I got a job in recruitment, found out I was pregnant, got sacked when I was pregnant. And it took me six and a half years to stop being angry about that. But what I realized was that as soon as my daughter was born, I was back in demand.

So I realized at the ripe old age of 29 that you would be popular now, but you may not be popular in the future. So I made a commitment to always be employable. And so I was studying a degree part time by correspondence, which I finished. And when I finished the degree, I had the opportunity to either go on and do a master's.

I didn't need to do post grad because I had work experience and then a PhD. But I decided to implement what I had learnt, rather than just continue getting a nice big tick every time you do another course. So, I have never stopped studying since. I go to between one and four events roughly every week, sometimes even more than that.

I do a lot of reading online. But basically, since I lost that recruitment job, I haven't had a real job since 1994. So it's been a fascinating journey and it's not for the faint hearted, it's not for everyone, but it's brought a huge range of opportunities and it also includes a really extensive voluntary career as well.

So yeah, I guess that's a place to start.

Nigel Rawlins: That's obviously a very busy person you're explaining. Well, let's just talk about one word you used there was employable. What do you think that means?

Sue Ellson: It means the ability to earn a living. So whatever that is, and I talk about the idea of work rather than a job, because with a job, you can have a job maybe three, five days a week, whatever. And then if you lose it overnight, you go from funds to no funds. And that can be really, really stressful. And I am superwoman at living off no money because six months after I got married at 20, my husband became unemployed and he never had a job again in the 19 years I was married to him of any significance or any duration. So I lived on a banker's wage, which was very low for the whole time I was married.

And then when I left after the 19 years, I, I lived off my own steam. I haven't had any inheritances. I haven't had anything. So I've worked really, really hard. And yes, I have relied when I first left my husband on some welfare payments, but they were not enough to pay the rent. So, for many years, the paying rent has been more than 50 to 70 percent of my income. For the first five years after my separation, I survived on an average taxable income of $26, 000 a year. That's from 2005 to 2011. I don't know anybody who can live that cheap, but I did. And I still got involved in activities through Scouts. I'd go on camps. I would catch the bus to Adelaide to visit my parents.

There's lots of things that you can do, low cost and free, and so I've done all sorts of amazing things. I've volunteered in two Scout Jamborees, one Cubbery. I took Scouts out sailing on Sydney Harbour for two weeks. I was the only person who didn't capsize the boat. But yeah, so you get lots of skills in all of these areas and so you end up being able to find ways to either save money.

And the value of creating a network, which is what I've done of people who know me, is that when my tax accountant said, Sue, you've got to earn more money before the 30th of June. And he said, please go out and speak to three of your clients and ask them to prepay you. And I had no idea how much to ask for.

I just spoke to three of my clients and I said, my tax accountant said, I need to ask for some money up front. One client gave me $750, one gave me $2, 200 and another gave me $5, 500. Now you tell me what job you could go to your boss and say, tomorrow I need over $8, 000 and I'll do the work, but I want the money now.

And so that's the sort of thing that you can do when you have a network and you're employable and you've developed relationships of trust. It doesn't happen overnight, but definitely something. And I'm living proof. I, I still don't have a house because obviously when you go through that situation. I've saved a deposit, but because of my age, I face discrimination.

I cannot get a loan. So now what I'm doing is I'm saying, all right, well, I live in a fantastic part of Melbourne and I do fantastic things. And so long as I keep myself employable or able to secure work. I can fund myself for the rest of my life, despite having very little in Superannuation as well. And I love my work.

I can choose my hours. I can choose lots of flexibility. I've got amazing health. I do spend a lot of money on health. I go have a physical massage every five weeks, I have Reflexology and Stomach Massage every three weeks. I have vitamins every day. I eat really healthy. I cut out sugar. I exercise semi frequently.

That's probably my bit of a downfall. And I try and get amazing sleep. So, health is, is another really important thing. And, and I have much better health than all my contemporaries.

Nigel Rawlins: It's important looking after your health, that's a really important point you've just made there, because one of the issues that I talk about, and Meredith Fuller, who you know, who's been on the podcast, is that women, when they get to about the age of 50, and they're working full time, start wondering whether they've got a future there.

And the first thing they've got to do, or she suggests, is look into themselves and look after themselves. So, what made you click onto the fact you've got to look after your health?

Sue Ellson: Well, I don't get sick leave. Like, I don't get holiday pay. I've never had long service leave. I mean, I just, I don't have super. I have to pay the rent. So, I have to maintain my health. And so, it's just absolutely fundamental. And I've always looked after my health. I would go to the dentist every six months.

I mean, you name it. I'm, I'm onto it. So, I, I understand it. And my grandmother lived to 98 and I asked her not long before she died, when did she start to slow down? She said when she was 90 and she stopped playing lawn bowls. So, I hate lawn bowls. I'm not going to be at the lawn bowls club. But what she also told me was that at 50, she started to slow down.

And so, I thought, well, when I lost my job at 28. And I thought I wouldn't be employed at 40, well now I'm 58, so my goodness, you know, I'm a long way down the path. But, I also believe in the saying, you're either green and growing or ripe and rotting, and all of us need a challenge in our lives.

So, I actually think it's a blessing that I don't have a whole lot of cash because it means I have to keep doing stuff. I don't get to sit on the couch and Netflix all day because I, I literally couldn't afford to do that. So it keeps me engaged, it keeps me active, it keeps me learning. I'm always doing stuff.

I schedule things in my diary. Because even though I can't go skiing in Aspen every summer or whatever it is, I mean, I have to find other things to make my life interesting. I've decided to take myself on a road trip to Broken Hill. Don't ask me why I've chosen Broken Hill. It's because I think it's something different I guess.

But that's what I'll do and I'll go on my own and that's fine. And so yeah, you need your health.

Nigel Rawlins: That's so important. because what we're talking about is being employable. So therefore health, you talked about learning, you talk a lot about reading. Now you mentioned you go to four events, four events a week. How do you do that?

Sue Ellson: Well, they're online, they're in person. I've, I ran Newcomers Network for 20 years of monthly events in the city for people who are new to Melbourne. I ran Camberwell Network for ten years. So I strongly believe in the principle of working close to home. It is way better working close to home. So the more clients that I can have that are close to home, or gigs that I can have that are close to home, the better.

Because I'm on my own, I need to feel connected. My family is interstate, my children have left home, I need to have my place in society. So, sorts of things that I do eventwise. I'm a member of professional associations. So I go to those events. I catch up with my neighbor every week and we go for a shorter and shorter walk because his health has deteriorated, but we still go out.

I have recently started learning how to play the piano, and I've also decided I wanted to improve my voice, so I started singing lessons, I'm going to those every fortnight. And I, look, I'm just constantly learning stuff. I, I have clients who have issues, and so one of my clients has a WordPress website, the same as mine, I've helped her build that, and we were putting an online course on it, and we had issues with it.

So, believe it or not, I tried a whole bunch of solutions to try and fix this problem, and we thought it was something to do with PayPal, and it was, and we'd uploaded a secret key, and all this stuff, and even that didn't work. So, I went to Microsoft Copilot, which is like ChatGPT within the Google, within the Microsoft search engine, and I said the problem there, and believe it or not, Microsoft Copilot gave me the answer.

I had to go back into PayPal and get a different API key. So the one that I'd found on a search result didn't give me the answer, but the one that I found on Microsoft Copilot gave me the answer. But, even this process, It's constantly learning. It's constantly digging. And so, because there's only me here, I don't have a virtual assistant.

I've tried having part time people working for me, both locally and overseas. It just hasn't worked. So, I always look for technological solutions. I was on a webinar last night, a media masterclass. I mean, just heaps of different stuff that comes through.

Nigel Rawlins: So, continuous learning, you're very active learning, you've got clients, so maybe we should talk about what it is that you actually do.

Sue Ellson: Well, that's a really great question to ask, Nigel, because we all know you should label jars, not people. But if I met you at a networking event, the most likely question you're going to ask me is, Oh, Sue, what do you do? Which I really hate that question. I much prefer the question, what keeps you busy during the day, because that's much more reasonable question and gives a much better answer.

But the label I give myself is I'm an independent LinkedIn specialist. So I help people with LinkedIn, whether that be individually or organizationally. And that's where I believe I can offer the most value to people because it incorporates the careers experience, the business experience, the LinkedIn experience.

I'm member number 77832. I joined on the 21st of December 2003. So I've been on the platform for over 20 years and I've been consulting on it since 2008. So that's where I can absolutely add the most value. But I also end up working with authors and helping them produce a digital presence and building that up.

I run training. I do a lot of stuff with schools and LinkedIn for schools. It's various. I've got five books. I've started writing poetry. So there's lots of different things and people get referred to me and I just end up doing whatever it is that they kind of need that fits. And I try and listen to their story.

I do a lot of the what am I going to do next with my life kind of stuff. But I've got a really great mind map exercise that I recommend that because I don't believe in assessments. I believe we are so diverse now, particularly living in Australia in a multicultural environment that we can't just put ourselves into some box and say, this is what I am.

And this is what happens as we get older. We're a lot, lot wiser and there's so many things we can do. We've developed so many skills as we get older. So it's a case of, well, what's the best way we can add value to someone and what's aligned with our values? So if I think back to 19 year old Sue, my goal for life was to do research, initially..

But my biggest priority was to have enough income so I could do whatever I wanted. And that's pretty much how I've lived my life. Enough income to be able to do whatever I like. And so I can pick and choose my clients and I can do great gigs. I mean, there's still stuff I don't like. No opportunity or choice will be a hundred percent perfect, but if you can get 80 percent good, I still got to do my GST, I still got to do tax, you know, still got to do those things.

Nigel Rawlins: Let's talk about your books. One of them you sent through to me was the Geekster. So tell me about that.

Sue Ellson: Okay. Well, the books is another journey because obviously when I thought I might be unemployable when I was 40, when I was approaching 50, I thought, my goodness, I need a career that is going to last forever. And so in my 50th year, I wrote three 80, 000 word books in nine months and published those, was the best year of my life, 2016.

And then. I thought, well, that's great. That's all that stuff that was in my head now out on paper. But what would be even better is if I could help other people do what I do and feel okay with it because I haven't had a real job and my family is still waiting for me to get a real job. You know, they're still thinking I should have a real job, but I've managed to survive without their support.

So it can't be all bad. So Geeksters is really about my methodology, it's not for everybody. It's about understanding your values, your strengths and your context. So for example, if your health isn't good right now, you're not going to do certain things. I can't be a brain surgeon.

I've left my run too late for that, but overall it's never too late and no time is wasted. And there's always something that you can do, but you've got to be able to say to yourself, is that going to be productive? Or worthwhile, or create a return on investment. It's all well and good to say, I'd love to be A, but if there's no market for it, then there's no point going down that path.

So the Geekster's book is about helping you understand whether you're an employee, an expert, or an entrepreneur. What options you've got available to you. Because even if you're working in an organisation, you can still be intrapreneurial, even if you're not entrepreneurial outside of an organisation. So, I was putting all that together, talking about the budgeting piece, talking about looking after your identity, because when I worked for Westpac, everybody was interested to know about Westpac, but nobody was interested to know about me as a, as a Gigster.

So, you really have to understand yourself and have the language that you can use to describe that to other people, so that you still find your place in the world and don't feel ridiculous at every party where nobody knows what you're doing. What you stand for.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay, so what is a Geekster?

Sue Ellson: I believe it's a person who uses technology to attract aligned gigs.

So I work on the basis of creating digital assets and then people find me when they need that particular product or service. So it's not somebody who drives an Uber. So if we think about it, the concept of gig work has been going for years. Every trades person is a gigster.

They don't necessarily use technology to attract the gig, but they go from gig to gig to gig. They're not just one day at one site. So it's the same principle, but applied to, any career, and I believe the future is not jobs. The future of work is work, and we will have to be incorporating technology in most types of work that we do.

Nigel Rawlins: I guess you could say that's what you could call freelancers now, you're calling them Geeksters. But I think what you're saying is that you can have multiple ways of earning income. So I think that's really important. So what about the Geekster or freelance lifestyle? Talk to me about that.

Sue Ellson: Where to start? It's very much a mindset. You have to be disciplined enough to be able to do the things you don't want to do as well as the things you do want to do. You need to be kind to yourself because a lot of people who've had the high flying career corporate background, we're type A personalities who think we can do everything and then realise, oh my goodness, I can't do everything to the standard I want.

How am I going to handle this? I still find a very critical voice, just get a real job, just get a real job, that those sorts of things will play on your mind because society hasn't caught up yet.

It hasn't realized that this is a legitimate way to operate. And, mostly I'd say it's an identity thing.

Nigel Rawlins: One of the things you also say is you do need to build a network and we spoke about LinkedIn. Let's talk about that network. So you're a person who might be attracted to the Gigster or the freelance lifestyle, and often I talk about women in their 50s finding their career is sort of slowing down or they're no longer satisfied with their career.

They could consider this, but at the same time they need to figure out how they're going to make that jump, how they're going to earn some money. So what are some of the things in terms of networking and how they could use LinkedIn to start moving out?

Sue Ellson: Well, the number one strategy for LinkedIn is, A, have a good LinkedIn profile with the whole backstory written on it. If somebody doesn't want to hire you because of their age, they were never going to hire you anyway. So let's use all those fabulous keywords from all that experience and pop it on your LinkedIn profile.

So that's number one. And the number two thing is to connect with every single person you meet. So every email. Every phone call, every person you ever worked with, everyone you went to uni or school or some short course, anything. From now on, connect with everyone. You can actually do it on your mobile phone using the LinkedIn app.

You press in the search box and then there's little dots on the side and it brings up a little QR code you can scan, you can connect immediately. You don't even have to carry a business card. So you absolutely need to have that network and build on it. Then if you think, all right, what I could do out there in the real world is service A, and you know what?

Everybody needs coaching, or everybody needs my product, whatever it is. And that's not true. But if you want to start in a ballpark area, regardless of what the service or product is, you can look at people who are 10 years older or 10 years younger than you. Because as a general rule, they're going to be somewhat interested, in the fabulousness of what it is that you do or say. So I think a lot of us assume that when we first start out that everybody needs this and they don't. And I'll never forget I was listening to a webinar by Brooke McCarthy, who's a Sydney based coach and she said what is the definition of a business and it's literally somebody paying for something That's it.

That's all you have to do and there's a story I quote over and over and over again There was this woman who was working at a very prestigious university, who got a payout and decided that in her future career she would provide PhD editing services. So she went out and she purchased a website. Now, Nigel, would you like to guess how many thousands of dollars she paid for a brochure style website?

Nigel Rawlins: I would probably not spend more than 500 bucks on something like that. But then again,

Sue Ellson: Well, she spent $20, 000 on it and the way I met her was because she came to a course I was running at the Center for Adult Education on how to build a website and it wasn't even prepared in the same program. And so then she didn't get what she needed out of the course, then she had to pay me to fix the issues with her website.

And the scary part of all of this is that, I don't know about you, Nigel, but anybody who is studying a PhD, they tell everyone they are studying a PhD. And most of them would even put that on their LinkedIn profile. So all she had to do to start her business. was to connect with people who wrote studying a PhD on their LinkedIn profile.

Then they would have seen, oh, she offers editing services. Ding, ding, ding. It doesn't take, you know, too much effort to work out that that would have been a fit. And she could have started her entire enterprise just with a LinkedIn profile and finding people who were studying a PhD.

Nigel Rawlins: That is very important. As you know, on the podcast, we've had two guests who are LinkedIn experts, both Americans, so you're our first Australian that we're speaking to about LinkedIn, is that LinkedIn is being found on the search engines. So you don't always have to have the fancy expensive website.

You can get found through search on LinkedIn, but you're dead right about that. You can connect up or do a search, like you said, and reach out or put in posts, write articles and stuff like that. Let's talk about that then. If you're considering maybe shifting to self employment and you're figuring out those sorts of things you can do as a business.

Now, you mentioned a business is something somebody pays for. Generally, they've got a problem that they want solved. Like, the plumber, the tap, tap's leaking. I need that fixed. Or on LinkedIn, I need my PhD thesis edited. Who can help me? Where can I find somebody? So let's talk about that then.

If, if you're in fifties, you're realizing that maybe work can be precarious. I don't think it's so bad in Australia, is it, compared to America? In America, they seem to be laying off people all the time.

Sue Ellson: Well, there's a much higher turnover and crash and burn and all these wild entrepreneurs. You know, you're not a success until you've failed 14 times. Whereas in Australia, you go bankrupt once and you're the pariah of the family. So, there's a lot more at stake, I guess, in Australia around that. So, the thing to think about, first of all, is all the people you've met on your career journey so far.

Think about what value you can provide and who would pay for it. So you need to think about those and ask them the question. You've given me amazing mentoring, is there something I can do for you and that you'd be happy to pay for? Now, obviously when we're starting out, we don't feel comfortable necessarily asking for a lot of money or it might be sort of something in kind or swaps or all sorts of things that you can do around that.

But you can use your LinkedIn profile in a number of ways. So for instance, every time I run a course, I would connect with all of my students. And then eight years later, they would say, oh, so I need some LinkedIn help now. And then when the time's right, they'll find me. So I'm always in their memory. So the benefit of having that LinkedIn profile and putting content out at least once a week.

Reminds people that you're still alive and kicking. So that's a really great thing. The second thing is you will actually get far further on LinkedIn being what I call the nice auntie or the nice uncle, which is all about engagement. So if Nigel, every time you see me in the LinkedIn newsfeed, you like my post, I'm going to think, I like Nigel cause he always likes my posts.

So if I need some marketing support, I'm going to go to Nigel because he likes my posts. And the platforms are all megalomaniacs. They want more people more often for longer. So if you're liking my posts, I'm going to go back to LinkedIn more often because Nigel might like more of my posts.

And that will give me a good feeling. So you need to keep your engagement ratio up. So if you're really just starting out, you're not sure what your position in the market is, just go around liking other people's stuff because then they'll say, Oh, that's what you're doing now. Now, the thing is when you've got to 50, you've got a lot of skills.

Personal skills, professional skills, technical skills, industry experience, international experience, you've got all these things. So, what you've got to be able to do is make it clear, because when I was Sue Everything, I didn't get any gigs, but when I became Sue Independent LinkedIn Specialist, people could remember that that's what I do.

Now, obviously, it's LinkedIn, it's a LinkedIn platform, it sounds like you wouldn't be able to do it for another industry. You absolutely can. But the key areas to focus on are your headline. So your keywords need to be directly underneath your name and that's where your label is. So it says in mine, Independent LinkedIn Specialist, and then all the other keywords I want to be found for.

Not value propositions or fabulous things because the first goal is to be in search results. And then at the end I just put a little emoji with a dancing lady because I am a woman of a certain age. I want people to know that I have energy, not just wrinkles. So therefore that's when I put the dancing lady emoji on there.

But the photo, again, conveys my energy. And the About section provides specific information on how I can help and solve problems and do all that kind of stuff. And then the rest of the profile provides evidence of that. So it talks to achievements, it talks to tasks, it puts all those keywords in my job titles, so to optimise it.

I've got recommendations on there. I've got votes for my skills. I've got the publications in there. I've put the featured images in. So I've done all those extra bells and whistles so that if somebody lands on the LinkedIn profile, they can self select. So if somebody looks at my profile and says, Oh my God, there's too much information.

It's too complicated. I can't cope. Well, great. Because you're not going to be able to cope with me if you can't cope with my LinkedIn profile. So I'm actually really happy for people to self select to me or self select away from me because I don't have time to answer 24 phone calls. Oh, can you tell me about what you do?

No, you make the decision. So most people who contact me are ready to book an appointment. And they just ask, when am I available? And that's what happens when you're really clear on your message. So you've got to make that message very, very clear.

Nigel Rawlins: That's what we call positioning.

Sue Ellson: wonderful.

Nigel Rawlins: So if somebody was 50 years old, female and wondering, can they make a gigster to lifestyle? How would you help them?

Sue Ellson: Well, the first and foremost thing is I'd go and do a full history on LinkedIn and make sure they've recorded everything, all the achievements, all the tasks. And I would like them to give me an indication of the tasks they enjoyed and the culture they enjoyed. because those two things are very different.

Sometimes we can do a job we hate, but we love the people. And sometimes we can do a task we love and, you know, the other way around anyway. So. It's, it's really important to do that back story. And the other thing I'd suggest for most people is that they create their own name website. So, my name's SueEllson. com. Now my first website went online in 2001 and my Sue Ellson one only went on 2012. So it took me twelve years to get around to it. But basically, if you're the business, you're going to be Googled. So the best way to do it, to tell your whole story in whatever shape, way, form, colour, imagery you like, is your own website.

So don't create one in a business name, if it's just going to be you, create one in your own name. So I would definitely help them do that. I would explain to them the most important pages are the About, the Contact and the Privacy Policy, because Google expects those three pages on every website. Good quality imagery.

Explanation of the story. But the number of times people come to me with a website and I've got no idea what to do when you land on it. There's no clear message. And so if people bounce straight off it, it's not going to rank in Google. So helping them understanding all of this, because I say it's much easier to teach a wise person to be digital, than a digital person to be wise. But also you can teach proverbially the old dog new tricks, just only one trick at a time. So I do it at a pace that people can manage and I let them build up over time, to where they feel comfortable and wherever I can, we use technology as the solution rather than man hours as such, because that can get very expensive.

Nigel Rawlins: Okay.

Sue Ellson: So, yeah.

Nigel Rawlins: Let's talk about that then. What do you mean by using technology to not spend money on people or I guess subcontractors?

Sue Ellson: Well, I, I'm a firm believer in systemizing things. So an example of a marketing strategy that I've been using since October 2021 is running a monthly webinar on the topic of LinkedIn, because obviously that's my area of expertise. So by running a webinar every month, I get into a routine. So I put it on Eventbrite, I put it on LinkedIn, I add it to my monthly newsletter, I can then on LinkedIn invite 1, 000 people per week to the event and so that's 4, 000 people over the month.

Then I run the webinar. And obviously I've got to prepare for that. And then I produce the recording and then I share that as well. So that sequence means that I've got social media content. It means I'm connecting with my network. It means I'm reminding people that I exist. It means I'm producing quality content. It means I'm putting videos on YouTube. So the whole thing is systemized and because I'm doing the same thing every month, I just copy paste the format and change a few words. So it's manageable for me to do it. Now, yes, it is still 10 hours of work, but so long as I'm getting work coming in through the door, I don't have to spend money on marketing or ads or something that's not necessarily going to do it. And every time I do it, it forces me to learn more information about LinkedIn, provide more value to people. And even if people don't attend the webinar, they're still reminded that I exist. Then, if somebody sends an inquiry to me, and they want to know something specifically about, I don't know, LinkedIn for Trades people, then I send them the link to the webinar that I've already done.

So there's all this repetitive, everything kind of connects with everything else. So to develop those systems, so that it's manageable. So for instance, when I was running Newcomers Network, I had to go into the city every month and that was, you've got to allow door to door, it's an hour, door to door, and it's three hours for the event, plus the promotion.

Like you add up the number of hours, whereas when I first started these webinars, they were an hour and I iterate and I realized, once COVID was over, nobody could stay online for an hour. So then I changed the podcast to half an hour. And then I realized, well, people don't necessarily want to turn up at a podcast at a set time.

They want on demand information. So I started producing short form video content and I systemize that. So I have a Canva account. I pay for the professional one because it saves me so much time. So yeah, they're the sorts of technology things I do. I systemize as many things as I can and I use technology to help me because by the time I teach someone else to do it and they do it.

And then I have to fix up all their mistakes, la la la la la, I could have just done the whole thing multiple times over. So if there's no economies of scale with me outsourcing something that I iterate every single time I do it. But I use that technology to invite 4, 000 people to an event every month.

It only takes me, well, five minutes each week to do that. So, 20 minutes to invite 4, 000 people, that's a pretty good return on time I reckon.

Nigel Rawlins: So how do you plan your time?

Sue Ellson: Plan it? I don't really. I have a paper diary and I put everything in my paper diary so I can see immediately what's happening, and the rest of the work just comes in. It just kind of flows, but that's what happens after a period of time and that's not something you can expect in, in the first six months.

I believe a digital presence takes at least six months to get going, if you're going to rely on that. Most businesses start by word of mouth and that's why you need your network and that's why you need to connect with everybody. What you can also do from LinkedIn is you can choose tools, settings, data, privacy and get a copy of your data and you can download all your connections.

So you could, make it an effort, 10 people a week off your connections list. You're going to reach out to say, hi, Nigel, by the way, I've left the bank and now I'm doing this just so you know, I've got this fabulous ebook that I'm happy to share with you and feel free to pass it on to any of your friends.

You can easily just start by doing that.

Nigel Rawlins: I guess one thing I found when, I used to be a teacher many years ago, about 25 years ago, that was not a group that I could actually network with. So some people might find that they are going to leave a particular profession to go into a new one that they're interested in. And the network will be quite different.

So what do you suggest they do there?

Sue Ellson: Well, I'll absolutely join the Professional Association. And in theory, if you were interested in this career, you could have joined it before you left teaching. And I have been on another podcast about leaving teaching, so I can give you the link to that as well. But, you don't have to have known somebody for a very long time to be able to do business with them.

I mean, a lot of people assume that you've got to do seven warm up exercises, but look, if the person needs your services today and you can be found for that, they'll book you today. I mean, that's the way of the digital world now. So, I believe it's not what you know, it's not who you know. It's who refers you and how you can be verified.

So if you say I've spoken to two international LinkedIn people, but Sue's based in Australia, I recommend you speak to Sue and then somebody Googles me and everything matches what you said about me, then the person's going to book me. They're not going to believe you even if you were their best friend.

They will still Google you. So that's why you've got to be verifiable. So that's why you need to create a Google business account in your own name and have reviews on there. You need to have recommendations on LinkedIn. You need to have a fully completed LinkedIn profile. Ideally, you might have some video content so people can see and hear you in a way that they feel comfortable with.

And away you go from there.

Nigel Rawlins: Now, that's an interesting thing about verification on LinkedIn. They want you to verify, they verify your phone number, but now they want you to verify using your passport. But the passports they're suggesting you verify seems like it's more, for the Americans.

There's something, an NFT on it or something?

Sue Ellson: Yes, and scarily, Nigel, I did this exercise and as an ex banker I should never have done it. What you actually have to do is you have to put this app thing on your phone. You have to scan the digital component within your passport for it to read it, which basically means they've got full access to your identity, which just freaks the living daylights out of me.

So I would suggest a much better way to do this is to get a gig with an organization that has a company profile on LinkedIn and ask them please to give you an email address at that organization. So one of the organizations I worked for was NetExpat, based in Belgium, working with trailing spouses.

So the expat would come into Australia, I'd work with their partner to help them find work. And so because I'd added that work email address to my LinkedIn account, it meant that it automatically verified it. So in the end, I didn't need to use my passport to verify my LinkedIn account. So get whatever work email addresses you've got, add them to your LinkedIn profile and never, ever, ever remove them, even if you leave the job.

Because if somebody syncs their LinkedIn account with their phone or email contacts, it will match you up because you both worked at the same school or whatever it was. And also it stops somebody using that email address to pretend they're you because you can't use that email address on another LinkedIn account, all of those things.

Nigel Rawlins: It's unfortunate that the technology out there makes it difficult because I'm having a problem. I want to put my podcast on to Google Podcasts, which is new now, but when they asked me to identify myself with my passport or my license, I took the photographs, set it up and they wouldn't accept it.

And I'm thinking, well, I put everything on there, but they're saying they only want to see a little bit. So I'm just wondering, what do I do? Get a texta and black out parts of my passport. That's going to go really well.

Sue Ellson: Yes, well I guess It's a security procedure because they're saying we want to see maybe the license number and your face at the same time, but we don't need to see the identifying number. Because in theory, a Google employee could then rip off your identity if they had access to that data.

But look, I've been around long enough that I've watched a lot of late night movies on SBS, before it went to streaming. And I'll never forget this movie, because everybody's so careful about the privacy, and please, different password on every account. I mean, if you do nothing else, make sure you at least do that.

But it was a scene where this guy turned up in a small village and decided he wanted to find Joe Bloggs, so, he went into the police station with a gun and put the gun to the police officer's head and said where does Joe Bloggs live? So, of course, the police officer looked up where Joe Bloggs lived and then he got shot anyway.

So, I mean, if somebody really, really, really, I mean, I know that's just an SBS movie, but if somebody really, really, really wants to find your details, there'll be somebody somewhere they can pay or shoot or whatever to get your identity So we have to accept that we live in this environment where our identity is, yes, it's important, but B, we have to imagine, how we can protect it wherever we can, but also how we can be found when we need to be found.

And, in a business sense, I need to be found. I don't have where my office is, but anybody who books an appointment finds out where it is. But then I have other mitigating strategies. I've got a very good neighbor and other things that are in place to protect me from that.

And from your advice before the show started, a few self defense techniques I could employ. But I have been having clients for many, many years. And I have a very light office with no curtains so people from the street can see it. And I wear full neck to knee clothing. I mean, there's lots of little things that I do.

I, I use the motto in everything I do is I'm friendly and professional, nothing personal. So that personal information doesn't come out.

Nigel Rawlins: We were actually talking about the fact that I've started learning Krav Maga, which is an Israeli self defence, and the main thing there it teaches you is situational awareness, which is a good strategic term, which is what's around? I've always been a bit like that. Meredith Fuller, who has been on the podcast three times, says if there's ever a disaster, she's following me.

Sue Ellson: Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Nigel Rawlins: I where the exit is.

And believe Yes, Krav Maga teaches you that. It teaches you how to speak in difficult situations, but be ready to defend yourself, but also to be sensible and also to know where the exits are.

Sue Ellson: Right. Absolutely. And look, back in the day when I was at Westpac, we used to have to teach people what to do in the situation of an armed hold up. And we used to have this terrible video with thumping music and a guy in a balaclava and a sawn off shotgun and everybody would start laughing and I'd tell them all off.

This is a serious situation. This could actually happen to you and la la la la la. And then years later I found out that laughter is a nervous reaction. And then I felt terrible for telling all those people off. But also, it really hit home to me, because I went to the cinema to see A Fish Called Wanda, however long ago that was, that it came out, and the movie starts with a hold up scene.

And I'm thinking, my goodness, if I'd been in a hold up. And I was just at the movies on Saturday night. I mean, talk about triggered. I would have been a right royal mess. But yes, I am very aware of things.

Nigel Rawlins: What haven't we spoken about?

do

Sue Ellson: Another interesting topic that I find fascinating is the average age of retirement in Australia. As I've said earlier, I'm 58. In September 2022, I was featured on the Daily Mail website. A lot of people would poo poo the Daily Mail website, but an executive producer from Channel Nine's Today extra program saw it.

And then I got called onto television and I've now appeared 17 times on Today Extra. And as a woman of a certain age, although I do dye my hair, I was surprised to find myself on television because everybody keeps telling me, oh it's an ageist society, blah blah blah. Anyway, I'm the sort of person who doesn't just want to come on and sprout an opinion and be funny.

I'm the person who wants to come in and provide something useful for watchers. So every time I go on, they give me a topic and I do this enormous amount of research and I try and find Australian statistics. We all know that the pension age keeps going up, so you won't get to get the pension until I think you're 67.

The pension will not be enough to cover the rent, so I've got to keep working anyway. But I thought, what's the average age of retirement? What do you think it is, Nigel,

Nigel Rawlins: I'm past retirement age now in Australia, but when you're saying the average age, I don't know. When I go into the supermarket, you look around, some people do look a lot older than me, and I am retirement age, so see them working and you think, oh they're working past retirement age, when in fact they might only be in their 50s.

Sue Ellson: You're spot on, Nigel. So, most people intend to retire around 65, right? That's what they intend to retire. The sad news is that most women are retired by 54. And men by 59. 3. And so the average retirement age in Australia is 56. 3. Now, I think a lot of people give up. My dad used to work for Anset Airlines and it collapsed three days before his 60th birthday.

And he just threw his hands in the air and ended up not looking for further employment. But he had a number of other things in place. So, no big deal, but, if you're in your early 50s and you've just lost your job and you're thinking about consulting and you realize that you gave up your career to look after your children and work part time and do all these things and you've got no super and you might be divorced, all this sort of stuff, it's, it's kind of scary to think that everybody else is already thinking about retirement and and I'm still dating 19 years after my marriage ended. Still haven't found a relationship. Haven't lived with anyone and I look at people the same age as me and all they want to do is travel and I'm thinking how boring would that be? Just traveling all the time.

You know, pack your suitcase, go somewhere, unpack your suitcase, pack your suitcase. I mean, to me, it's fun for a while but all the time. No, it would get very, very boring. And you hear this a lot. A lot of people work so hard and then they retire, then they cark it because they're not green and growing anymore.

And this, they've done the overseas trip and they've cleaned the oven and they've sorted the kids photos. And then what do they do with their lives? So I, I think that we've got to think about how we're going to enjoy our life. And the Geeksters book starts out with my favourite quote, which is, Occupation is the necessary basis of all enjoyment.

And if we think about it, when are we in flow? When are we doing what we love? It's when we're fully immersed in something or another, whatever that is, whether it be a hobby, a passion, interest, work, whatever. We get into this state and it's kind of cool. And I've noticed every time people stop, that's when they get sick and that's when some illness gets them.

But if we can find ways to keep going, so about 12 months ago I said maybe I should consider semi retirement and for me what semi retirement means is incorporating more fun things in my working life. So instead of five straight days or you know it's really seven days when you're a freelancer, being still you're always thinking about it.

But instead of putting most of my time into my work, maybe I'll schedule things in that I'd like to do. So I try and as a general rule keep a Friday off and I, for $10.60 you can travel anywhere in Victoria on public transport. So I catch the train up to Bendigo, do something like that.

Nigel Rawlins: It's four dollars, down here in, in regional Victoria. When you're over 60, it's about $4 to go anywhere return..

Sue Ellson: you

Nigel Rawlins: Return.

Sue Ellson: Return the whole day. You don't have to pay petrol. You just sit there and relax and enjoy. Sometimes you chat to people. It is so fantastic. I just love it. And I love traveling on a Friday because you get to meet locals instead of all the tourists up on the weekend. So that's why I love doing it.

It's a quiet day work wise on a Friday. So it really, really works for me. So I schedule Fridays off as often as I can. And so I do those kind of things. So Yeah, because at the end of the day, we're dead a long time and it's all well and good for me to earn enough money to live until I cark it, which hopefully will be over a hundred, with good health and everything else in place.

But yeah, might as well enjoy some of it on the way

Nigel Rawlins: Definitely, well, it sounds like you are, and you're definitely energetic and obviously continuously learning and you've got that, what we call that curious brain, I hope you're not like me, I read multiple different books on multiple different topics and it's crazy.

So I, I find it very hard to focus in on what I do. So I'm now exploring and I am one of the retired people, even though I'm working full time as a retired person.

And the podcast now can take me two days a week, often with three guest interviews a week, all found through LinkedIn. Often they're people who are writing very interesting things, or they've written an interesting book. And then I read the book and then I try and do something with it. But how you define what I do now is very difficult.

I make my living from marketing services. So I look after 18 websites, so updates, I do all the SEO, I write articles for them, golly knows what, but that's not, that's how I'm earning a bit of extra money through the company and it pays for the books and the technology and stuff like that. But to define what I'm going to become is very interesting. I nearly gave up the other day and I wrote an article about it on LinkedIn.

Sue Ellson: I don't think we have to define who we are anymore. And there was one man I met, John McCaskill, and he officially retired for many, many years as a successful recruiter in a trade industry. And he said, Oh, great, I can call myself a geekster instead of retired because he didn't want to be lumped in with the retired group.

And so there are people who are comfortable with that. There's nothing wrong with it. Some people like to do one thing at a time. Some people like to do multiple things at times. The way I see it, Gigster's book is all about being your own kind of peculiar. And it's an expression that I heard from Michael Leunig.

And if more people could be their own kind of peculiar, the world would be much more interesting and life would be so much better. So many of us up until midlife occurs, according to Robin Vickers Willis, around the age of 35. And up until that time, we've been living according to the rules of society, our friends, our peer group, our family of origin, whatever.

And from 35 onwards, we start to think, well, hang on a minute, It's my life. What am I going to do with it? And so there's all this confusion at the same time we're dealing with children or parents or some other issue going on at relationships. So by the time we get to 50, we're thinking, Oh my God, my time is really starting to run out.

Well, again, I'll say it's never too late. And no time is wasted. There's always an option. But it's working out how we can juggle it in such a way. And I really believe in the value of understanding our context. So for instance, when my marriage first ended, I was relying on some welfare benefits because I couldn't get childcare.

It was just not possible for me to get childcare. And even when my children were at school, I still had to get through all the school holidays. No childcare. When they were sick, no childcare. So I just didn't have that option. So what I did was I kept doing voluntary work whilst I was receiving the payments.

So I still felt connected to my community. I'm still building my business. And so it was a way to manage for that context and that period of time. And I didn't feel guilty about receiving a welfare payment because I was contributing to my community and I was still acquiring new skills and I was doing this.

So sure, I might not be able to sit in A-Reserve tickets at every concert I go to, but I can sit up the back or go to the preview or go to the matinee or not go out for dinner at the same time. And I still get that experience and live a rich life. And I make do with very little. I'm in a Facebook group where people re-home stuff.

I acquire things from the side of the road. I upgrade when I get a new item, I recycle the old one and I just wait. And the, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got. It was just after my daughter was born. There was a woman in the hospital bed next to me, and I said, what's your best tip? She just delivered her fourth baby.

And she said, don't buy anything until you absolutely need it. And I kid you not, Nigel, that has saved me a fortune, an absolute fortune. You know, when you think I'll just run down to the shop and get something. No, what have I got in the cupboard? I'll make do. It's amazing how many extra days of your life you can get through without buying the groceries or without buying another garment or borrowing something from somebody for a particular use.

And I think what happens with a lot of people, we think we have to do everything ourselves. And what we are doing is we are denying people the opportunity to help us. And when somebody told me that, they said it's a form of control, Sue, and somebody might like to help you, you should ask them, you know, I mean, I don't ask, but I could ask.

And even knowing that I could ask is helpful. And so I've got this fabulous neighbor who's a builder, and so my hot water servers went bing and so he came over with some special device his dad had made to widen the flange on the pipe and you know he was happy. It was like a 10 minute job. I gave him chocolates and something or other else.

I mean I still paid him for want of a better word but I didn't call a plumber. Do you see what I mean? Like this this is ways to manage and I think that life is interesting if you can just look a little bit beyond what we assume is the only way to do things.

Nigel Rawlins: And on that note, I think we should finish.

Sue, thank you very much for being my guest on the Wisepreneurs podcast. Thank you again.

Sue Ellson: Thank you, Nigel. Pleasure to be here.